IIS

IIS – How would you describe the politics between Turkey and Poland regarding the historical background as well?

H.E. Wilczek – It’s almost impossible to describe it in a short interview. Almost 600 years of diplomatic relations between Poles and Turks, and unfortunately few other than us know about that. We as people always feel the sympathy and common atmosphere as the background of our relations is extremely rich and numerous evidences of those can be found in the Ottoman archives. In addition, more than half a million Poles today visit Turkey as tourists and large nuMBer of students travel to both countries in the framework of Erasmus students’ exchange.

IIS - What are similarities between Poland and Turkey in culture, art, and perhaps daily life?

H.E. Wilczek – Being mostly dependent on agriculture in the past, both nations are very fond of natural life and having space. See, like people trying to get the most out of good weather with their mangals here in Turkey, Poles like to plant vegetables in their backyards in the middle of cities and brag about the fact those are the best vegetables in the country (laughs). Likewise, both Poles and Turks think that they’re the best drivers in the world, when –unfortunately- they’re not (laughs).

IIS – What are the most surprising experiences of yours in Turkey so far?

H.E. Wilczek – My story in Turkey stretches back to 1977, when my father was a representative of the Polish Airlines in Istanbul until 1981. I spent very beautiful 4 years of my childhood even though it was a difficult time for Turkey. I remeMBer witnessing the assassination of Abdi İpekçi and explosion of a Romanian tanker in the Bosporus. All in all, I feel I have been a part of this country once. On the other hand, witnessing the difference between Turkey of several decades ago and of now lets me evaluate and appreciate the real great effort by this nation and their leadership. Moreover, those years I spent in Istanbul as a child helped me learn Turkish by living it when I played football with my friends in the street, watching series like Beyaz Gölge (The White Shadow) or “Tatlı ÇarşaMBa” on TRT, which was the-only TV channel by then, in black-and-white and so on. But I still have difficulties in pronouncing some of hard ones in Turkish, like the name of a very interesting society on my way to work: Ankara Fenerbahçeli Yöneticiler Derneği.

IIS – What are your key priorities in making Poland better known in Turkey?

H.E. Wilczek – For us, first of them is to bring forward common elements of culture. For instance, we have promoted opening a Chopin park in Ankara thanks to the officials here and lately, there was a seminar organized by Czesław Miłosz, the famous Polish poet who received the Nobel Prize in Literature. Secondly, we try to nourish and favor the connections that the scientific, social associations, and NGOs seek with different institutions in Poland.

IIS – Are there any Polish scholarships for Turkish students who want to study in Poland, and what is your policy on student exchange projects between Poland and Turkey?

H.E. Wilczek – There’s a Polish language department in Ankara University and students can exchange with their counterparts in Poland, or go for a summer study as well. Of course Erasmus is a very successful project in that regards, too. For many years, Poland has been the second address of Turkish students in Europe after Germany, and those who have been there have very good experiences with them. I have even witnessed a couple of times people that have spent some time in Poland approaching me and either asking something or making a statement in Polish. And this is a real contribution to the relations between us, with real experiences and real memories, without any prejudice. And that’s a very positive and strong aspect and a success of the Erasmus program.

IIS – Obama has pointed Poland as “the world model of democratic transition” in his recent visit to Poland. How was the transition handled?

H.E. Wilczek – Actually, just after Poland was cut-off from Europe, our natural habitat and neighbors, we were already feeling in a strange way as we were facing most developed countries and the West as enemies, including Turkey. There was a strong feeling of injustice during the communist era. The Polish army, which was the fourth biggest allied force was fighting against Nazi Germany. Poland had lost a decent amount of its territory and was driven to a block of countries overwhelmed by the ideas that were not accepted by the Poles. As one can easily see the GDP per capita data from the early 50s from OECD, Spain and Poland were quite the same as per their GDP figures; whereas by 1985, there was a huge gap in the comparison. Along with other things, this was one of the signs and complaints about the direction the country was heading for. The economic, social ideas for the Poles were not successful and this led to the subsequent uprisings starting with the protests in Poznan in ‘56.

How did we manage to do that transition? Well, I might say the most important factor was the responsibility for the state by the democratic opposition to prevent possible bloodshed and irreversible violence acts. On the other hand, the communists were weak so that some compromises were easy to set. We were also fast in rebuilding the institutions especially after around 120 years of lack-of-state for ourselves. One of the key factors in doing so was building the ability of local governments with the help of budget funds. There was a perfect mix of both top-to-bottom and bottom-up approaches between local government and state in this transformation. There was also a very strong motivation of NGOs in the process, feeling responsible for the common fate.

It was not perfect, though. We passed through very harsh periods and painful reforms in the process, but with strong efforts we made it. Last year Poland had a growth of 4.4%. For Obama’s statements, it’s hard to be a model for everyone, but I guess everyone can get something out of what we experienced and we are of course proud that they (US) recognized our efforts.

IIS – How can you describe Poland’s experience with the EU, and how would you compare before and after?

H.E. Wilczek – The EU was a target for Poland for three main reasons:

- Historic reasons that I have already mentioned, the fact that the EU was a successful economic project.

- Political reasons including the strive to be among a democratic family of nations.

I must say that of course the overall experience of the EU is extremely positive after 7 years of meMBership. We feel like we are finally where we should be and I believe no one’s going to say it was a wrong move. Now for us, the questions are like whether we should go with Euro, what the exchange rate would be and such collateral matters. If you pick a random person from the street and ask about the EU, I don’t think a negative reply will come out even though we, the Poles like to show their unhappiness. The results are very pleasant of course, unlike the process itself, which was not. The accession process was so painful that when it was finally a referendum about to be or not to be, it was only 58% of people that voted. Many –like it is now in Turkey- were already complaining about the double standards and had second thoughts about the Euro regime and of those 58%, 20% clearly said “No”. So, all in all, accession process is definitely not euphoria.

IIS - What do you think about Turkey’s EU accession process? And what are your key priorities in Poland’s presidency of the EU for the next term?

H.E. Wilczek – Well it’s not the most pleasant process, I must say. Yet, on the other hand, very few people question the positive and rewarding results of this process so far, rather concentrate on sentimental aspects I’ve mentioned. It is one of the best things Turkey experienced in the last decade and I hope that will continue as it seems to reward both sides in the future. Since you asked, I might add that, in the Polish Presidency statement declared recently, it says Poland will do their best to contribute to continuing accession meMBership negotiations. As far as the Polish presidency is concerned, our primary focus will be on European integration as a source of economic growth since the current crisis shows that there’s a need for the improvement of structures and legal framework of Europe in that regards. We also think that we should talk more on agriculture policy, future budget of the EU, the consolidation of the common market to eliminate certain barriers existing now, the role of SMEs and their access to capital and so on. Another priority Poland will emphasize is the safety of food, energy (interlinks of gas electricity and so on) and defense in Europe. A third priority would be given to Europe benefitting from its openness like with focusing on the events in Tunisia and the rest of Northern Africa, helping them build their own democratic institutions and fight the corruption. In this context, we also find it important to cooperate with and bring closer our Eastern neighbors towards the Union.

IIS – At that point I must ask your opinion about Euro, do you expect a debate on the unit currency in Poland’s presidency?

H.E. Wilczek – Well, we are not a meMBer of the financial/monetary union. And after last year, I must admit we are happy we are not yet (laughs). I think we have avoided some serious damage. Yet, the treaty says we are going to be a part of it sooner or later and it will not stop just because Euro zone is in a difficult period. Indeed, if one looks around, they’ll see the financial picture in the world is not a rosy one, either.

IIS- Do you think the Turkish football team will make Euro 2012? Speaking of which, can you elaborate what Turkish football fans can expect from Euro 2012 to take place in Poland?

H.E. Wilczek – Please ask me that question on Saturday again (after the match of Turkey against Belgium). But seriously, I’ll be diplomatic about it and just say that I was very optimistic about Turkey’s qualification, but very surprised after accidents Turkish team suffered. I hope Turkey will make it as the Turkish national team is extremely strong, but also suffering the disease of highly industrialized football culture of Europe too. Having cheaper and more nuMBer of foreign players more eager to play than local ones. I know on Saturday in Belgium, one half of the stadium will be Turkish fans, with the other half being Turks as well (laughs). We hope to see Turkish rejoice in Poland and Ukraine too.

From the broad social and socio-political point of view, Euro 2012 has been a very important event for both Ukraine and Poland, organizing it together. Considering that the final match of Champions League between Barcelona and Manchester United has been watched by over 200 millions of people in the world, we hope that the people visiting both countries will have a chance to see these with their own eyes and this will contribute a lot to the region’s publicity. And I think that Turkey will host one of these major organizations one day as I see the vision now in Turkey, for that one can look at the success of Universiade in Erzurum and Galatasaray’s stadium in Istanbul and so on. In addition, we can see the improvement in the overall quality of Turkish football as there are now more than 3 teams of İstanbul contrary to what it used to be, say, Bursaspor, Trabzon, Kayseri, Gaziantep and Sivas also perhaps, strong enough to pursue championship in Turkish league.

IIS – Well you certainly analyzed our league very well.

H.E. Wilczek – Well, I like sports and I like to play too. I used to be the captain of the Polish Ministry of Affairs Football Team. Every year there’s a tournament between the ministries of foreign affairs of Central Europe, which includes Poland, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, and Slovakia, and each country hosts it once in every 8 years. When I last played there before coming to Turkey in 2005, I was the captain of the Polish team, which was second in the tournament in Berlin, playing in Hertha Berlin’s Stadium. Like that, sports is a very important element of interaction between countries and societies, and no need to emphasize it is healthy.

IIS - If you had a chance to change something in the world what would that be and why?

H.E. Wilczek – It’s a hard question, but also I would be very cautious with that as well since Poland had once a very bad experience with people who thought they could change the world in the 30s and the 40s. But, there’s something I’d like to change, and it’s very personal. I’m very fond of a fruit that you cannot buy in Poland and exists in Turkey, very hard to preserve for transportation: Malta Eriği (loquat, Eriobotrya japonica). It’s definitely my favorite and if I could do something about making trees of this Malta Eriği produce it for all-year-long, that would definitely be something I’d go for.

IIS – Thank you very much your Excellency for your time and hospitality.

H.E. Wilczek – Ben teşekkür ederim ve Brüksel’de başarılar dilerim. (Thank you, and I wish you luck in Brussels.)